I’m a complementarian, meaning I believe in biblical submission of a wife to her husband (Ephesians 5:22; Colossians 3:18; 1 Peter 3:1) and male leadership in the church (1 Timothy 2:12-14).
See Limits to Submission: Immoral or Illegal Requests.
Rules for male leadership are also specifically applied to prayer and worship in joint fellowship (i.e., church) (1 Timothy 2).
So beware of teachings (example below) that go beyond Scripture:
“A woman, whether she is married or single, must recognize the fact that in general, as a woman, she must have a spirit of submission to all men … whether in marriage, in business, in the church.… The woman must realize in any relationship that she has been given the place of submission.” (source: MacArthur)*
That statement isn't biblical, nor are the claims of pastors who say women should not be allowed to vote in government elections (e.g., Douglas Wilson).
Both men and women should submit to church leadership, employers, and government (Romans 13:1-7) wherever they choose to worship, work, and live.
But claiming women should have “a spirit of submission to all men” would mean she must submit to her brothers, adult sons, neighbors, doctors, etc. Besides being unscriptural and impossible, this claim is unsafe.
The Bereans carefully judged the teachings of Paul with Scripture, and they were called noble for doing so (Acts 17:11). Let's be noble in testing the teachings we hear, no matter who presents them.
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Would you like a more thorough study of this issue? See Biblical Submission Is Unique to Marriage.
* Important Note: If we defend people no matter what they do or teach, we lose discernment. If a teacher offers 99% accurate Bible teaching, we should still be willing to identify and disagree with the 1% error. God's Word must have our first loyalty. I say this because I know I will get negative feedback by pointing out an error in the teaching of John MacArthur. The linked sermon contains some accurate Bible teaching, but the quote about women being in submission to all men in all areas of life is not biblical. And it's dangerous. Another quote in MacArthur's sermon also disturbs me.
To make the point that submission is not an inferior position, MacArthur talked about Christ being in submission to God the Father when He came to earth to die for our sins, which did not make Christ inferior to God the Father. I agree. That is completely scriptural. But again, MacArthur took it beyond Scripture and made a statement that's not accurate biblically.
“It is not – and mark it – it is not that Christ is inferior to God. In fact, He said, ‘I and the Father are’ – what? – ‘are one.’ There is no inferiority; there is simply a role that is taken. And I’ll tell you something else, think about this: in the truest sense, I, as a member of the Church, am not even inferior to Christ, who is the Head of the Church, because God the Father says I am a joint heir with Christ. And that Christ lives in me. And it is only that I have taken the place of submission, the role of submission. Someday, when I get to heaven, I will be like Him. So, you see, it isn’t talking about inferiority-superiority, it is simply talking about role.”
We will never be equal to Jesus Christ. He is eternal and perfect, the only Savior and Lord of mankind.
Perhaps MacArthur misspoke or later changed his mind about the serious errors he expressed in this sermon, but this sermon remains a featured sermon in his website.
Sorry Gail, but after reading this blog, and the linked sermon on this topic from John MacArthur, I really think you need to re-read the entire presentation. Your opinion that MacArthur’s sermon is “not biblical” means there is no basis in scripture. But his references lay out specific scripture to support this view of women being in the submissive role when compared to the husband. This is only positional. Like an employee is submissive to his boss.
ReplyDeleteI’ve been a long time reader (6-7 years). I’ve never posted. But I felt compelled to challenge you on your rather harsh position on John MacArthur.
Thanks
Hi Dan,
DeleteFirst off, I never said that MacArthur's sermon was "not biblical." I said that the quoted statement from his sermon was not biblical. Yes, some of what MacArthur said in his sermon was accurate, but this error is not a small one.
I clearly stated at the beginning of my devotion that I support the view of submission in marriage and male leadership in the church as it is described in Scripture. I don’t agree with feminist views that these things are unimportant or not applicable today.
I’ve studied this subject in depth and written on it many times.
But nothing in Scripture supports MacArthur's claim that “A woman, whether she is married or single, must recognize the fact that in general, as a woman, she must have a spirit of submission to all men … whether in marriage, in business, in the church.… The woman must realize in any relationship that she has been given the place of submission.”
I read the entire transcript of MacArthur’s sermon on his website. I didn't take this quote out of context. He never retracted this quote or clarified it in some way to have a different meaning.
If you believe this statement is biblical, please show me which Scriptures support it.
I stand by my belief that MacArthur's view presented in this quote takes submission beyond Scriptural guidelines into an impossible and unsafe area. If a woman is taught she must submit to all men, she will very likely be manipulated and abused.
Also, please tell me what I wrote that was "harsh." I didn’t call MacArthur names or say anything about his character or his motivation. I simply took a direct quote from his sermon and explained that belief/statement is not Scriptural.
And I find it a bit ironic to be called “harsh” by someone supporting MacArthur because he was known for flippant remarks about people with whom he disagreed.
A very prominent example is when John MacArthur was asked what he thought of Beth Moore, and he responded, "Go home!"
If someone asked me what I thought of Beth Moore, I would say that I don't agree with her views because she's moved away from some of her original beliefs about women and sexual lifestyles. But I would never mock her as MacArthur did. For one thing, I know that she was sexually abused by her father, and having MacArthur treat her in this way surely added to her distorted view of men in leadership.
Even if a pastor teaches 99% accurately, Christians should be willing and able to point out his 1% error, especially if he is held in high regard. If we fail to admit to the faults/errors of a Christian teacher, we lose discernment and set ourselves up to be taken in by other false teachings.
Because of your comment I decided to share another quote from MacArthur’s sermon that I might have waited to use in another devotion about the superiority of our Lord. But I believe there are probably many others who would also defend MacArthur as someone who always accurately shared God’s truth. So I’ve shared a more serious error in his sermon than his statement about women.
I pray that none of my readers will defend MacArthur’s statement that he is not inferior to Christ. I think that’s cringeworthy.
Sorry Gail,
DeleteMy intent was not to anger you. As I said, I have followed you for many years, bought your books, and have enjoyed your minute devotions. I always try to judge people on the entirety of their life, not on one or two comments they may make while serving God. The position that MacArthur takes here is not meant to bring women down to submission. It’s simply God’s way of establishing how we live as Christians in this crazy world. I believe that in the Bible, submission is the voluntary, humble choice to place oneself under a God-ordained authority or to prioritize the well-being of others out of reverence for Christ. Further, this belief is fairly consistent within most ranks of evangelical Christianity, just as I believe it was MacArthur’s view as well.
This was the first time in all these years that I have actually posted a comment to your studies. I’m sorry if you were offended.
Dan
Hi Dan,
DeleteThank you for your attitude in both of your comments. I did not find your comments offensive, and they didn't anger me.
But I feel the need to confirm what I've written as accurate.
Please note that I did not judge the entirety of MacArthur's life. I judged specific, well-documented statements he made publicly.
I understand your desire to defend MacArthur because there are some good aspects of his ministry, but these two statements from his sermon published on his website are not Scriptural, and they need to be addressed.
Submission as you describe it in your comment is consistent with most of evangelical Christianity, but your description is not the same as MacArthur's. It is not biblical or safe to claim all women are in submission to all men in home, church, and business, and that's what MacArthur said quite clearly.
And while it's true that both men and women are equal in God's sight even though the woman is called to submit in marriage and not be a pastor. It is not true that MacArthur is now equal to Christ since he's in heaven. And that's what he preached in a statement recorded and transcribed on his own website.
You can still believe MacArthur was a good teacher, but please don't excuse or accept these or any other things he taught that contradict God's Word.
I agree with you Gail,that women should submit to ALL men is crazy! Also agree that we need to be very discerning and point out when a teacher speaks just 1% error, it's sad that so many who've been a great blessing to the body of Christ are being led astray!
ReplyDeleteHe's not inferior to Christ???
Love Ann, I so appreciate your ministry.x
Thanks, Ann, for your encouragement. I have to admit that both of these errors surprised me, and I wondered if anyone had ever brought them to MacArthur's attention.
Deletethe word tells me that women should not be over men in church circumstances. that means that they should not be pastors. In marriage its a partnership but the final say should be the husband unless it goes against the word.. a woman is to be respected as well as the man though. I will not attend a church where the woman is a pastor.. I read your blogs every morning as a start and back them up with the chapters from the scriptures you give. 98 percent of time I agree with what you say..
ReplyDeleteHi Peg,
DeleteMaybe I've misunderstood your comment, but are you saying that you disagree with something in today's devotion?
Everything that you've stated in your comment about submission in marriage and male leadership in the church I've confirmed as true and biblical in my devotion.
What I've said is not biblical is MacArthur's belief that women are in submission to ALL men and Wilson's belief that women shouldn't have the right to vote.
If I missed something, please let me know.
When we put any human as equal to Jesus Yeshua our Savior you have lowered the position of Christ to that of merely being human. He still retained 100% of Deity. Jesus was the God Man.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your accuracy when it comes to biblical interpretation. To take MacArthur to the extreme, he's saying that a woman should be in submission to her rapist, if you follow the logic behind his statement. Today I just finished Judges in my quiet time. Some of that treatment of woman was definitely not Godly. Thank goodness that Judges is description of what happened not prescriptive of how we should live our lives. Jesus put that to rest in Matthew 7:12
Thanks, Glen, for your insights. Judges is a good comparison to our modern times because it says "all the people did whatever seemed right in their own eyes" (Judges 21:25). We need to get back to God's Word, not human words.
Delete